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Main > Female handlers weakening the breed?!? (107 replies)

by Q Man on 16 March 2012 - 19:03

Posts: 987
Inscrito: Thu Aug 23, 2007 04:53 pm
Actually I think the best Handlers are women...They have more patience and this goes a long ways in bonding and working with a dog...

There's a difference in Handling a dog...and...Training a dog... ...Women are better handlers...Men many times are better at training a dog if you think of training as doing Protection work...and this is simply because men are stronger then women and can do more of the physical work that's required to do Helper work...

Old School training involves a lot of Compulsion...
Newer School involves more Motivational Techniques...

In the Newer School/Motivational Techniques...It takes a bit longer to train a dog but I feel it creates a better bond between you and your dog...

Some people will then argue that we all end up the same place...Compulsion... ...but I feel that it's how you use it more then what you use...

I feel that most men will...when really pushed...will revert back to using muscle...
Whereas women...on the whole...can't use the same strength to rely on...So they revert or rely on what they can do and that's be patient and learn technique...

So I still fell that women are better handlers then men...

by Q Man on 16 March 2012 - 19:03

Posts: 987
Inscrito: Thu Aug 23, 2007 04:53 pm
As for Strong Dogs...I think that more women are wanting Stronger Dogs...Not idiot...stupid dogs...But Stronger dogs...

Your definition of a "Strong Dog" is comparable to everyone's definition of "Ball Drive"...Everyone has a different definition but they know what they're talking about...So I think you have to know each person's definition before you can compare...

by oregontnt2007 on 16 March 2012 - 19:03

Posts: 158
Inscrito: Wed Feb 15, 2012 06:26 pm
HECKL NO! If we "girls" are going into a "MAN SPORT" PLEASE by all means, dont alter/weaken the breed for us! That just gives you guys a chance to shoot women down!

Same rules, same dogs for ALL

If a woman can't handle it then they dont belong!

by Sunsilver on 16 March 2012 - 20:03

Posts: 7282
Inscrito: Tue Mar 20, 2007 09:04 pm
Men and women compete on an equal footing in the Olympic equestrian sports. Even the strongest man can't control a horse just with brute strength, so I'm afraid Jeff's argument doesn't hold water AT ALL!


"One can never, through violence, cause the horse to perfect the manner in which it expresses its skill, but only by delicate alternation between coaxing and demanding, between much praise and little punishment."

Alois Podhajsky, director of the Spanish Riding School, 1939-1965

 

by desertstorm3115 on 16 March 2012 - 21:03

Posts: 22
Inscrito: Sat Mar 03, 2012 02:48 pm
Yet in the Military, a man's PT test is not equal to a woman's PT test. I see no need to produce "softer" dogs unless those that produce these dogs are using it as an excuse maybe?

by BlackthornGSD on 16 March 2012 - 21:03

Posts: 1064
Inscrito: Wed Jul 25, 2007 08:57 pm
This is scarcely a new accusation. I think I've heard similar whining in other sports that are being rejuvenated or kept alive by the influx of women who like to train and compete with their dogs. My first response is, too bad, so sad, get over it. *ahem*

It doesn't take a "man's strength" to operate an ecollar, which is what many trainers/handlers turn to with a truly hard dog. So, this is more about people preferring a dog who is more flexible and easier to work with.... I'd have to say that that demand is scarcely female driven--I think it is points-driven--and there are as many or more point-seeking male trainers out there as female.

Additionally, a truly hard dog is not best managed by the brutal handler who uses all of his physical strength against a dog. If a dog is truly hard and dealing with a hard/harsh handler, then human and dog just end up in a constant conflict--a battle of wills and strength--and there will be more fighting than learning and seldom will any sort of true teamwork be achieved. Far better for any human--male or female--to use their brains and act with confidence rather than force.

There are a few dogs out there who refuse to respect a female handler--they absolutely won't work for them, no matter how motivational or no matter the force. One of these dogs I witnessed was Dak v Kirchweital -- and it had nothing to do with handler skill or handler strength. Interestingly, although this dog was plenty hard and strong, he wasn't one of the first dogs I think of when I think of the hard, strong dogs I have known.

As far as old-fashioned "harsh" training methods back in the days when dogs were "really hard" .... does anyone really think it's a good idea to return to the days of using a high-speed winch to teach the go out?

Christine

by brynjulf on 16 March 2012 - 22:03

Posts: 965
Inscrito: Mon Jul 20, 2009 05:20 am
It is my opinion ( notice I said opinion not fact or actuality) that GSD are being weaked because we no longer have the need for a super strong working dog.  True working homes are few and far between, breeders are breeding for more of a pet/home guardian market or they bred for themselves.  Alot of these purchasers have little or no dog experience and are ill equiped to handle a strong working animal. No choice really as in this day of I sue you you sue me, strong dogs are a liability not an asset.   In other countries this may not be the case but in North America we have to be aware of this when producing litters. Has zippo to do with female handlers.  We all know how I feel about Handler aggressive animals.  They should not be bred period.  Handler aggression does not mean a hard dog, it means the dog is a dink. German shepherds were bred to work WITH a handler.  To me this is a huge temperment fault.  In other breeds it doesnt bother me as much as in the GSD.

by yellowrose of Texas on 16 March 2012 - 22:03

Posts: 9579
Inscrito: Tue Nov 28, 2006 03:25 am


How about I go dig up Frei v d Guggi and turn him loose in a ring of women...lol

We have some great women in dog handling who do know how to handle the HOT ones.,but I would not want to try   soft handling with any of Frei's progheny...

I know of a women handler in Germany who one of Frei's sons ate her face out and an American trainer, male, took him and 15 days later put a Schutz 1 on that male dog. in Germany, .while she lay in a hospital..
That dog came to America to live...and still had to learn ALPHA...took a heavy hand to teach him and to get him civil but oh what a powerhaus with nerves of steel and later ran together with 20 other gsd daily..  I had a grgr grand son of Frei and it never stopped showing in all the progheny .out of Dona sur Steinbeck Burg.

It can be done by women but sometimes the soft touch won't work. Sometimes you have to get that dogs attention...
YR

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