Sport/working Enthusiasts > DDR, Czech and West Germany working bloodline (180 replies)

by HGO on 05 December 2012 - 10:12

Posts: 5
Inscrito: Wed Dec 05, 2012 09:46 am
I just bought czech working line GSD for my family companion and protection dog.  He has very good nerve, but it seems have not very high play drive. He gets bored playing with toy.  I tried buying several different toys hoping that I can elevate his play drive.  But it seems, he only interested about 10-15 minutes playing with the toys.  I asked the breeder why the pup has low play drive would he be a good family protection dog when he gets older? The breeder said all his puppies mostly are like that but he can assure that all his puppies he breeds posses very good nerve and defense drive and guaranteed can do protection work.  I also happened to ask some other breeder from West Germany bloodline side says: WG line in general are more easily trainable for dog sport as well as for protection, thats why this guy only breed 100% WG line shepherd.  Then I read some articles about DDR line working GSD.   This really makes curious.  Would somebody inform me what would be the significant trait, character, (+) point as well as (-)  among these three major bloodline ?  Thank you

by Ace952 on 05 December 2012 - 13:12

Posts: 1280
Inscrito: Fri Jul 23, 2010 02:44 am
How old is the puppy? I wouldn't force it...just let them be a puppy.

Drives can just kick in at anytime, I wouldn't be too concerned.

Don't believe everything especially the blanket statements on lines. I would stop listening to that WGWL breeder. His statement is pure nonsense.

by THEskridge on 06 December 2012 - 00:12

Posts: 160
Inscrito: Sun Jul 22, 2012 07:04 pm
Depending on his age isn't 10-15 minutes average? Can you build up toy drive by taking the toy away while it's still "fun" don't wait until he's bored.  Do this a few times a day.  We did this with our 7 month old Shepherd with his ball. We still stop playing before he gets bored to keep it interesting for him. I'm not saying it's correct or that I'm an expert  but it's worked for us :)

by kipka on 06 December 2012 - 00:12

Posts: 11
Inscrito: Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:24 pm
Your pup will be fine calm down play desire has little to do with the instinct to defend.dont get to caught up in the east vrs west thing the wall ca me down a long time ago just relax love. Your pup

by darylehret on 06 December 2012 - 01:12

Posts: 2671
Inscrito: Wed Mar 01, 2006 06:58 am
I'm a believer of the blanket statement that WGWL dogs ARE easier to train.  And SOONER.  Though I've had DDR based Czech lines that late-bloom nicely and would be "easy" to train at 2 years with prey/retrieve, or even 4 years for protectionwork, but who the heck wants to wait that long on the chance of having a dud?  That's just TOO slow to measure your progress as a breeder, and a perfect example of WHY DDR type bloodlines are failing to impact any competitive training venues of note.  For every ONE DDR dog you find that's accomplished in ANY competitive ring, there are HUNDREDS of WGWL dogs doing the same, and better.  Love'em too, myself, but I'm not going to fool myself about the practical truth.

by workingdogz on 06 December 2012 - 10:12

Posts: 964
Inscrito: Thu Sep 22, 2011 10:42 pm
HGO
10-15 minutes is a long time for a puppy!
Puppies of any breeding generally have the attention span of a
couple minutes at best. Keep play sessions and training sessions
short and exciting, 10-2 minute daily sessions is better than one
20 minute sessionWink Smile


Let your puppy be a puppy, don't push him to be a grown dog.
That will happen all on it's own, and sometimes way too soon!
Keep his access to toys limited, why would he want to play with
you or anyone else when he has a toy store in front of him at all
times? We always want what we can't have theory Wink Smile

by HGO on 07 December 2012 - 06:12

Posts: 5
Inscrito: Wed Dec 05, 2012 09:46 am
dear Guys ACE952, skridge, workingdogz : very much thank you for your information.  my pup will be 4 month old next week.  I totally agree, that we should let puppy be a puppy and let him grow naturally.   I will try limiting the toy access.  Only giving him toy when playing only.  Thank you.

@kipka: very encouraging thanks. I love my pup very much Thumbs UpWink Smile

@darylehret : Thanks for the info.  I am a beginner and have no idea on this bloodline issue.  I noticed, police K9 dogs 90% using GSD and Malinois.  This is only my curiousity, why most police K9 GSD come from Czech or DDR bloodline.    My question is would it be any specific or special charateristic on each one of them that makes each one of them is very special on specific purpose .  For eq: WGL is good for Dog Sport  ,  czech / DDR is for security or police service dog .  If Yes why is that? 

by ziegenfarm on 07 December 2012 - 07:12

Posts: 1574
Inscrito: Sat Sep 20, 2003 04:05 pm
sounding off.......wasn't relevent to topic, so i deleted.  sorry.
pjp

by Hundmutter on 07 December 2012 - 07:12

Posts: 3977
Inscrito: Fri Jun 10, 2011 08:43 pm
HGO sorry, bit confused !  It doesn't seem clear to me from your posts
whether you are letting the pup play with whichever toy BY HIMSELF for
as long as he is interested in it, or whether you are playing WITH him
and his toys ?  

by HGO on 07 December 2012 - 18:12

Posts: 5
Inscrito: Wed Dec 05, 2012 09:46 am
dear Hundmutter:  I used to leave the toys in the kennel with him.  by the time I took him out for a walk and play with the toy he got bored easily & lost interest

by Peter Cho on 08 December 2012 - 07:12

Posts: 38
Inscrito: Mon May 03, 2010 05:02 am
Did you actually see the parents of this pup do anything? It will turn out much like its parents.
Bloodlines whatever. Look a4 month old pup should be driving you crazy not bored with any toy. Nothing to do with bloodline. Everything to do with finding a real working breeder AMD testing parents.
You may just have a lazy pet. And for many, that is what they want.

by Siantha on 08 December 2012 - 08:12

Posts: 553
Inscrito: Mon Mar 21, 2011 01:28 am
a 4 month old puppy i would assume would be very playful but not 100% of the time after a toy. 10 to 15 mins of drive for a toy is alot for such a little mind i would say work with him for like 5 mins 2x a day with just playing with him with the toy you want him to focus on and end it with him being very focued on the toy and wanting it but dont let him have it and then put the toy away the next time you bring the toy out he will want it more and fight harder to get the toy but you have to remember their tiny teeth and teething can effect how much they want to interact with toys till about 6 months. i wouldent say he is a lazy pet we havent seen a video or have near enough information to call him that.

by Prager on 08 December 2012 - 16:12

Posts: 3016
Inscrito: Wed Apr 29, 2009 08:33 pm
DaryI   with all due respect I completely disagree with your statement:
I'm a believer of the blanket statement that WGWL dogs ARE easier to train.  And SOONER.  Though I've had DDR based Czech lines that late-bloom nicely and would be "easy" to train at 2 years with prey/retrieve, or even 4 years for protection work, but who the heck wants to wait that long on the chance of having a dud?  That's just TOO slow to measure your progress as a breeder, and a perfect example of WHY DDR type bloodlines are failing to impact any competitive training venues of note.  For every ONE DDR dog you find that's accomplished in ANY competitive ring, there are HUNDREDS of WGWL dogs doing the same, and better.  Love'em too, myself, but I'm not going to fool myself about the practical truth.

In direct  opposition to that statement I would say  WG dogs may be  easier to train in sport.  Sport however  is not all work(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) GSD should be able to do, but it is only one narrow function of a working dog.  SV and competitiveness of people in Germany and elsewhere in Europe promotes by its scheme  narrow spectrum of dogs abilities to do sport. This is achieved mainly  by promoting high to extreme prey drive and omitting natural protectiveness through courage based  defense, aloofness, investigative abilities, alertness, territoriality and I can go on for quite a long time more.   The DDR and Czech dogs  of old type  were bred for work in general. "z Pohranicni straze" dogs for example, were bred to guard border where the sport dog would fail with their SchH type tracking and SchH type bite work and so on and on.  In early days of z PS Czech dogs were considered unable to compete and thus be registrable. Thus z PS started to compete so that they could be included in the breeding program of the Czech  GS club. These dogs achieved these titles for purpose to be proven to be breed worthy. THAT WAS ALWAYS THE  ORIGINAL PURPOSE OF THE SchH or ZVV  test. That is before  this testing  degenerated into a sport. 
I would also like to state that true working dogs were always bred for :
Longevity,
early workability and 
long age and long workability. 
Where sport dog breeders rarely care about longevity or long workability of the breed since most  dogs retire  from top competition not later then at 4 maybe 5 years then they breed for a while and then they are useless for the breeder and taking space in a kennel . Where working dogs are an investment for the sheepherder or police or for family or wkat ever working purpose and they do want the dog to live as long as possible for economical and emotional reason. 
Thus yes the dogs which are  bred for narrow purpose of sport with their extreme drives will do better in sport  then old style Czech or DDR more versatile  dog.
Narrow purpose and breeding of dogs with extreme often onesided drives is destroying the GSD. That can be obvious from onslaught of of other breeds which in past were inferior to old style working GSD in one way or another. 
Remember GSD is  not an extreme bred but it is extremely  versatile breed. 
Prager Hans
 

by J Basler on 08 December 2012 - 16:12

Posts: 268
Inscrito: Mon Nov 19, 2012 05:33 pm
Hey Ace959 why is it nonesense explain.

by Hutchins on 08 December 2012 - 16:12

Posts: 751
Inscrito: Sat Jul 23, 2011 07:34 pm
Well stated Prager.  

However, each person is entitled to his own opinion.  All opinions made here are correct. Prager stated the different reasons upon which we should base our opinions.  he gave us something to think about, not argue about.  JMO

by J Basler on 08 December 2012 - 16:12

Posts: 268
Inscrito: Mon Nov 19, 2012 05:33 pm
Thanks Hans

by simonjohndaniel on 08 December 2012 - 16:12

Posts: 16
Inscrito: Thu Dec 06, 2012 02:58 pm
i am new here and i am extremely sorry for posting this here but i want your views about the following dogs and what do you think their puppies would be like would the pups be worth a buy?

I once again apologise for being irrelevant but i want the answer as soon as possible.

father: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dog.html?id=714182

mother: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dog.html?id=636911

this would really help me.

by Minicus on 08 December 2012 - 17:12

Posts: 87
Inscrito: Fri Apr 15, 2011 08:21 pm
@simonjohndaniel  Welcome to PDB The best thing to do is start a new post should get lots of helpful info Good Luck

by Prager on 08 December 2012 - 18:12

Posts: 3016
Inscrito: Wed Apr 29, 2009 08:33 pm
 Hutchins. There is only one truth and many opinions which are far or near to the truth. Yes everybody is entitled to his opinion as long as that is where it stops. At an opinion.  If someone has wrong opinion and proceeds to build on it or enforce it then that is not what such person is entitled to. I am talking here only in general terms and not about any particular opinion here. 

by simonjohndaniel on 08 December 2012 - 18:12

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Inscrito: Thu Dec 06, 2012 02:58 pm
@ Minicus

Thank you! I just did
:)

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